1 Topic by Calamity

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Topic: Correct monitor-setting/preset for my NEC 3PG

This was posted by u-man in the GroovyMAME tutorial thread, I've moved it to a proper place:

First, thanks for this nice and well explained tutorial.
I still have some questions regarding creating monitor-presets. I have a NEC 3PG crt-monitor and i would like to use the most out of it. While there is nothing wrong, with using the Wells Gardner D9800 preset, there is still the problem that this preset dont use the full potential of my NEC 3PG.

With VMM i have managed to have a desktop resolution of 800x600p @60Hz, but couldnt manage to have these:
  960x720p @50Hz
1024x768p @46Hz
VMM just creates 960x600p and 1024x600p and both in widescreen PAR. I can manage to make them as i want with the Arcade OSD tool, but the widescreen aspect still remains. From my feelings, i would say, this is because VMM only wants resolutions at or near 60Hz. Could also be the D9800 preset, i dont know.

With Winmodelines and Powerstrip, i could force the right aspect and resolutions. Also i miss one thing in the tutorial and that is the fact, that vector-games are way better looking with high resolutions. With my new resolutions, especially the colored vector games looks way better than before. For example Tempest looked really ugly on a h-oriented crt before, now i am really satisfied.

Anyway, i am writing and asking, because i want to help others, that have the same monitor or similar (like Sony BVM).
I would also like to see some 48Hz/24Hz resolutions, for those who would just like to watch 23.968 fps fluently on the screens :) .

PS: Monitor specs and better description of my problem here: http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/index.p … 856.0.html

2 Reply by Calamity

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Re: Correct monitor-setting/preset for my NEC 3PG

Hi u-man,

The way the D9800 preset is defined, makes it obvious that nothing above 600p can be generated from it:

monitor "d9800", "Wells Gardner D9800", "4:3"
        crt_range0 15250-18000, 40-80, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 224, 288, 448, 576
        crt_range1 18001-19000, 40-80, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.140, 0.191, 0.950, 0, 0, 288, 320, 0, 0
        crt_range2 20501-29000, 40-80, 2.910, 3.000, 4.440, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 0, 0, 320, 384, 0, 0
        crt_range3 29001-32000, 40-80, 0.636, 3.813, 1.906, 0.318, 0.064, 1.048, 0, 0, 384, 480, 0, 0
        crt_range4 32001-34000, 40-80, 0.636, 3.813, 1.906, 0.020, 0.106, 0.607, 0, 0, 480, 576, 0, 0
        crt_range5 34001-38000, 40-80, 1.000, 3.200, 2.200, 0.020, 0.106, 0.607, 0, 0, 576, 600, 0, 0


The solution to your problem is quite straight-forward. Just extend the existing preset to reach 768p.

monitor "nec-3pg", "NEC 3PG", "4:3"
        crt_range0 15250-18000, 40-80, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 224, 288, 448, 576
        crt_range1 18001-19000, 40-80, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.140, 0.191, 0.950, 0, 0, 288, 320, 0, 0
        crt_range2 20501-29000, 40-80, 2.910, 3.000, 4.440, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 0, 0, 320, 384, 0, 0
        crt_range3 29001-32000, 40-80, 0.636, 3.813, 1.906, 0.318, 0.064, 1.048, 0, 0, 384, 480, 0, 0
        crt_range4 32001-34000, 40-80, 0.636, 3.813, 1.906, 0.020, 0.106, 0.607, 0, 0, 480, 576, 0, 0
        crt_range5 34001-38000, 40-80, 1.000, 3.200, 2.200, 0.020, 0.106, 0.607, 0, 0, 576, 768, 0, 0

(In the "Monitor settings" tab, press "Edit monitor presets", then paste the text above. Save and exit. Now a new "NEC 3PG" preset will be available from the drop-down menu).

You can use the sliders on the right panel to analyze each of the 6 ranges, e.g. see how vertical resolution limits the achievable vertical refresh for a certain range, etc.

3 Reply by u-man (edited by u-man 2016-06-08 15:38:39)

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Re: Correct monitor-setting/preset for my NEC 3PG

Dear god of CRT´s... Calamity :) ,

As i wrote, i did solved all my problems, with the additional tools Winmodelines and Powerstrip.
My own NEC 3PG set looks like this now:

monitor "nec-3pg", "NEC 3PG", "4:3"
        crt_range0 15500-18000, 40-100, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.190, 0.191, 1.018, 0, 0, 224, 288, 448, 576
        crt_range1 18001-19000, 40-100, 2.187, 4.688, 6.719, 0.140, 0.191, 0.950, 0, 0, 288, 320, 0, 0
        crt_range2 20501-29000, 40-100, 2.910, 3.000, 4.440, 0.451, 0.164, 1.048, 0, 0, 320, 384, 0, 0
        crt_range3 29001-32000, 40-100, 0.636, 3.813, 1.906, 0.318, 0.064, 1.048, 0, 0, 384, 480, 0, 0
        crt_range4 32001-34000, 40-100, 0.636, 3.813, 1.906, 0.020, 0.106, 0.607, 0, 0, 480, 576, 0, 0
        crt_range5 34001-38000, 40-100, 1.000, 3.200, 2.200, 0.020, 0.106, 0.607, 0, 0, 576, 600, 0, 0

I was confused of the "Horizontal Resolution Video = 600 Lines" in my manual, so i was scared to expand the 600 to 768 ;) .
Now I am scared, to try the new preset with your additional info, mainly because i am afraid to start over again, if something goes wrong.

On the other hand, i would like to help others with the same monitor. Is there a way to save all my current stuff and settings, just in case i need to go back to my "old" preset?

Anyway, i just want to add that the vector games now, really look awesome and glorious, especially if you additionally use HLSL and the extra vector parameters there + some parameters like RGB Gamma, which are very usefull to define the points better, in drawn vector objects. You should really consider this for GM. While the defaults are ok for a 15khz CRT, they are not for anything higher than 480p. Vector games are not pixel-based anyway and you can safely say, the higher the resolution, the better the games will look.

I really cant wait to see how the new improvements from 0172-0174 regarding the vector games will turn out and there is more to come in 0175, where we will have true rounded points (not squares like now) . I am so amazed how well everything looks now, especially the colored games, where the real life equivalents used a shadowmask too. At a resolution that high, you dont see any scanlines anymore. So vector games are nearly the same as the real life stuff. I am so happy now, with my rig and all thanks to your wonderful software. You and the whole team behind all the nice additions like ASIO support and frame delay, are my true arcade gods. I wish you all the best for the future and all the necessary success in the official MAME dev team.

cheers u-man

4 Reply by Calamity

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Re: Correct monitor-setting/preset for my NEC 3PG

You can create a "backup" of your modelines with the "Export video modes" option in the "Video card" tab. But I can't guarantee the stuff you created with other tools will be preserved (it probably will). Anyway it's a terrible idea to use Powerstrip with the CRT Emudriver & GM combo.

The preset I provided is safe. As I've explained dozens of times, CRT monitors have no maximum vertical resolution, what they have is a maximum horizontal frequency. As long as you keep Hfreq within the monitor work range, it's safe:

crt_range5 34001-38000, 40-100, 1.000, 3.200, 2.200, 0.020, 0.106, 0.607, 0, 0, 576, 768, 0, 0

Vector games are not pixel-based anyway and you can safely say, the higher the resolution, the better the games will look.

For vector games, I'd say GM already goes for the higher possible resolution achievable from the given monitor preset.